Faith & Form. . . .
. . . . All form is limited. And what most religious people call faith is in reality doubt.

Martin Luther talked a lot about faith in his day. He also wrote a hymn. It goes,
Ein Fest Burg ist Unser Goti
It means, "A mighty fortress is our god."
That is NOT a hymn of Faith. A person of faith does not need a fortress, they are not on the defensive.
Real Faith is not a belief.
A belief is a doubt. It would be impossible to hold one without also holding the other. Two halves of one coin.
If you have real faith you don't need belief. In fact, the depths of ones Faith can be measured in direct proportion to that individuals lack of beliefs. . . . . . .and the majority of people who claim a religious faith have that completely upside down the majority of the time.
People seek to give God, absolute reality, infinity a form, and in so doing they limit it. As all form is limited, and what is infinite is by its very nature without limits. So the form itself causes the divine to appear obstructed.
Tremendous lack of faith leaves such a hole inside that the individuals dogma is no longer enough to delay the fear of the unknown. And so consensus is sought. This is called Evangelism. And these types of people are often missionaries.

"You search the scriptures daily for in them you think you have life."
People who worship the Bible, (or any other written sets of symbols) are in reality worshiping a form. And ALL forms become idols the moment they are worshiped. So they are idol worshiping. . .it is idolatry.
"The letter kills but the spirit gives life."
- the apostle Paul
After all the word for a thing is NOT the thing itself. . .the description is NOT the described.
Being NO single form, but in fact ALL forms, does in fact present forms that are fierce. . . . and forms that offer sanctuary.

Thank you Kali Ma.
Good scientists have far more Faith then most religious people do.
A good scientists will say, "my mind is open to the truth, whatever the truth turns out to be. And, I may have a hypothesis in mind as to what the truth may be, and I am going to test it."
That is true Faith.
Faith is also trusting yourself to water. . . learning to surf is an act of Faith. Swimming can be an act of Faith. . . .to stay afloat you have to learn to relax, to let go, and not to cling or hold tight. If you hold tight, if you cling, you will drown.
A person who is a fanatic in religion, who believes certain concepts, dogma, or belief systems about the universe and the idea of God, and who clings tight and holds strong to those concepts. . .that person is NOT a person of Faith.
In fact they hold no Faith at all.
That clinging and holding tight IS the dominant religious worlds actual definition of Faith. . . . and it is of course, totally backwards.
Faith is not clinging. Faith IS openness.
Faith is not holding tight. Faith IS letting go.
The trust in God, or an absolute reality, that one cannot conceive of in any way. . .is a far higher form of Faith than fervent clinging to a god or reality of which you have a definite conception of.

Mary Magdalene who loved Jesus very much, is said to have seen him after his resurrection. . .and she ran to him to hold him.
And he said, "Do not touch me."
But the Greek word hatir means to cling to. . . "Don't cling to me." . . . .has a different feel doesn't it?
The Buddhist word Nirvana actually means to 'breathe out'. . .letting GO is the actual manifestation of true Faith.
It isn't that real Christians have not known this. Theologica Mystica was written in the 6th century by an Assyrian monk named Dionysius Exigus, and it is still considered a fundamental sourcebook by modern Christians. . . . in that book he calls the highest state of knowing God, AGONSTOS which is a Greek word meaning "UNKNOWING".
Form. . . . .ALL Form is Limited.
Anything their is self identification with is ignorance.
All forms you take yourself to be are just concepts. Concepts are a form, and forms are limited.

This does not mean that all forms are not honored. I can honor the form, and I can honor the limitations of that form. I can be thankful to that form, and all forms. . . .as form and what is beyond form are in reality one and the same. . .and the one always brings me back home to the other.
Thank you form.
Again we are back to the idea of real Surrender.
Surrender has no plan. Surrender doesn't hustle, try and manipulate, or set goals. Surrender knows better.
Surrender is to what IS, which is always NOW and always HERE.
In stating that truth their is a fear by some that it leaves the individual complacent. That it will have negative consequences on that persons life. Or that it rationalizes away some assumed guilt that person should have. Wouldn't you just lay in bed? Where is the will to "achieve"?
But as usual, that is totally backwards and inside out.
If I work in the factory and I surrender to that fact, and I say "Ok I surrender, I am a factory worker. I will get used to it." Does that not therefore mean I will be less likely to pursue more education, or achieve other dreams I may hold?

The answer is maybe you will stay a factory worker, and maybe you wont. But regardless it will not be due to that surrender. No surrender took place. What took place was an adding of a concept into a belief system. . .the concept of "I am a factory worker.". . . . .that is just another form, and I am NOT THAT either.
Surrender does not mean surrendering one form for yet another form, or one belief for another belief.
Surrender is to the moment of NOW, and all it encompasses.
It requires the letting go of all concepts and ideas. . .not the replacement of them with other concepts and ideas.
And what happens beyond that i cannot know.
But we chase the bigger house, nicer car, different partner, larger bank account, better performance, and "positive" image. . . .until we again become frustrated with the limitations of the new form. All form is limited. And in that frustration we seek more, and more, and more. . .until we realize it is never the 'right' form. It can never bring real happiness, real peace.
Until I realize it is beyond form, through form, and surrender to that. And then I am truly free.

Again and again it comes back to a total letting go of our own will to have a plan, to set a 'goal', or to cling to form, to hold a concept, to make, want, or need the moment to be anything other then what is now.
That is not giving up faith. . . that is real Faith right side up.
The real I is the totality of everything I am aware of, and a great deal besides.
A questioner asks: "I meditate neti - neti (not this - not this)".
Ramana: "No, that is not meditation. Find the source. You must reach the source without fail. The false 'I' will disappear and the real 'I' will be realized. The former cannot exist apart from the later."

.

Martin Luther talked a lot about faith in his day. He also wrote a hymn. It goes,
Ein Fest Burg ist Unser Goti
It means, "A mighty fortress is our god."
That is NOT a hymn of Faith. A person of faith does not need a fortress, they are not on the defensive.
Real Faith is not a belief.
A belief is a doubt. It would be impossible to hold one without also holding the other. Two halves of one coin.
If you have real faith you don't need belief. In fact, the depths of ones Faith can be measured in direct proportion to that individuals lack of beliefs. . . . . . .and the majority of people who claim a religious faith have that completely upside down the majority of the time.
People seek to give God, absolute reality, infinity a form, and in so doing they limit it. As all form is limited, and what is infinite is by its very nature without limits. So the form itself causes the divine to appear obstructed.
Tremendous lack of faith leaves such a hole inside that the individuals dogma is no longer enough to delay the fear of the unknown. And so consensus is sought. This is called Evangelism. And these types of people are often missionaries.

"You search the scriptures daily for in them you think you have life."
People who worship the Bible, (or any other written sets of symbols) are in reality worshiping a form. And ALL forms become idols the moment they are worshiped. So they are idol worshiping. . .it is idolatry.
"The letter kills but the spirit gives life."
- the apostle Paul
After all the word for a thing is NOT the thing itself. . .the description is NOT the described.
Being NO single form, but in fact ALL forms, does in fact present forms that are fierce. . . . and forms that offer sanctuary.

Thank you Kali Ma.
Good scientists have far more Faith then most religious people do.
A good scientists will say, "my mind is open to the truth, whatever the truth turns out to be. And, I may have a hypothesis in mind as to what the truth may be, and I am going to test it."
That is true Faith.
Faith is also trusting yourself to water. . . learning to surf is an act of Faith. Swimming can be an act of Faith. . . .to stay afloat you have to learn to relax, to let go, and not to cling or hold tight. If you hold tight, if you cling, you will drown.
A person who is a fanatic in religion, who believes certain concepts, dogma, or belief systems about the universe and the idea of God, and who clings tight and holds strong to those concepts. . .that person is NOT a person of Faith.
In fact they hold no Faith at all.
That clinging and holding tight IS the dominant religious worlds actual definition of Faith. . . . and it is of course, totally backwards.
Faith is not clinging. Faith IS openness.
Faith is not holding tight. Faith IS letting go.
The trust in God, or an absolute reality, that one cannot conceive of in any way. . .is a far higher form of Faith than fervent clinging to a god or reality of which you have a definite conception of.

Mary Magdalene who loved Jesus very much, is said to have seen him after his resurrection. . .and she ran to him to hold him.
And he said, "Do not touch me."
But the Greek word hatir means to cling to. . . "Don't cling to me." . . . .has a different feel doesn't it?
The Buddhist word Nirvana actually means to 'breathe out'. . .letting GO is the actual manifestation of true Faith.
It isn't that real Christians have not known this. Theologica Mystica was written in the 6th century by an Assyrian monk named Dionysius Exigus, and it is still considered a fundamental sourcebook by modern Christians. . . . in that book he calls the highest state of knowing God, AGONSTOS which is a Greek word meaning "UNKNOWING".
Form. . . . .ALL Form is Limited.
Anything their is self identification with is ignorance.
All forms you take yourself to be are just concepts. Concepts are a form, and forms are limited.

This does not mean that all forms are not honored. I can honor the form, and I can honor the limitations of that form. I can be thankful to that form, and all forms. . . .as form and what is beyond form are in reality one and the same. . .and the one always brings me back home to the other.
Thank you form.
Again we are back to the idea of real Surrender.
Surrender has no plan. Surrender doesn't hustle, try and manipulate, or set goals. Surrender knows better.
Surrender is to what IS, which is always NOW and always HERE.
In stating that truth their is a fear by some that it leaves the individual complacent. That it will have negative consequences on that persons life. Or that it rationalizes away some assumed guilt that person should have. Wouldn't you just lay in bed? Where is the will to "achieve"?
But as usual, that is totally backwards and inside out.
If I work in the factory and I surrender to that fact, and I say "Ok I surrender, I am a factory worker. I will get used to it." Does that not therefore mean I will be less likely to pursue more education, or achieve other dreams I may hold?

The answer is maybe you will stay a factory worker, and maybe you wont. But regardless it will not be due to that surrender. No surrender took place. What took place was an adding of a concept into a belief system. . .the concept of "I am a factory worker.". . . . .that is just another form, and I am NOT THAT either.
Surrender does not mean surrendering one form for yet another form, or one belief for another belief.
Surrender is to the moment of NOW, and all it encompasses.
It requires the letting go of all concepts and ideas. . .not the replacement of them with other concepts and ideas.
And what happens beyond that i cannot know.
But we chase the bigger house, nicer car, different partner, larger bank account, better performance, and "positive" image. . . .until we again become frustrated with the limitations of the new form. All form is limited. And in that frustration we seek more, and more, and more. . .until we realize it is never the 'right' form. It can never bring real happiness, real peace.
Until I realize it is beyond form, through form, and surrender to that. And then I am truly free.

Again and again it comes back to a total letting go of our own will to have a plan, to set a 'goal', or to cling to form, to hold a concept, to make, want, or need the moment to be anything other then what is now.
That is not giving up faith. . . that is real Faith right side up.
The real I is the totality of everything I am aware of, and a great deal besides.
A questioner asks: "I meditate neti - neti (not this - not this)".
Ramana: "No, that is not meditation. Find the source. You must reach the source without fail. The false 'I' will disappear and the real 'I' will be realized. The former cannot exist apart from the later."

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