The following interview has been compiled from magazine interviews, seminar questions, and responses to e-mail. It was organized and put into a Q&A format along with interview questions given by Derrick Cox on 5/15/01 specifically for this website.

Derrick: Matt, what have you been up to since your last interview about a year ago?

Matt: Well, same as usual. Allot of training, working on my ground game, teaching, and traveling allot more. I guess you could say I have primarily been concentrating on building the 'organization' of the Gym.

D: Building the organization. . . . . . what are your long term goals with that?

Honestly, I am ardently anti goal setting. That may sound weird if you don't know me well. But I believe that for 'me' I cannot be too strict in my vision of what I want to see happen. I have broad ideas for the future, but nothing to strict. That way I can still go with the flow of what happens...stay in synchronicity so to speak, without being so narrow minded that I try and force a conclusion that was not meant to be.  My prime rule for my life is that I must always stay true to myself. Since I evolve and change, my goals must evolve and change also.

So, to state it bluntly, my long term goal for the Gym is just to create a "community of friends". People who enjoy training as I do, that I can visit around the world. Taking the principle of "Aliveness", and connecting with others who grasp that. In the long term that's how I see the "Organization" being built. Simply a network of friends. Nothing more spectacular, or detailed then that. That's as deep as it gets.

D: How have your travels been received since the release of your tapes. Have you met many of your critics?

I have never met a critic in person. Sometimes I can notice people within the audience of my seminar that are a little stand offish... wondering what I am about. They arrive with a pre conceived negative attitude. But it's always gone by the end of the day. By the end of the day everyone has seen the elephant, and they realize that I, me, Matt, am not an integral part of the process.

D: Seen the elephant. . .what does that mean?

There is a popular children's fable about a blind man and an elephant that is told by some of the original JKD Instructors. The idea is that three blind men, or blindfolded men are taken into a dark room, and each one touches a different part of the elephant. When one comes out he is ardent that the elephant is actually a snake (as he touched the trunk), another things its a large rock, etc. The analogy is said to help explain how all of Bruce Lee's students saw a different piece of the elephant, and that's why they may say that JKD is this or that. My joke is that at the SBG I take the student into the room where the elephant is and turn the light on! By the end of the seminar, or a few classes at the Gym everyone knows what the elephant looks like. We know the nature of the beast....good or bad, they know. They cannot be fooled again once they get it, once they grasp Aliveness, once they see the elephant. It only takes one day to show them, and it changes the rest of their life.

D: In your travels around the world now you have seen the JKD community at large. What would you say the biggest problems still are within the JKD community?

Short answer. . .Aliveness, period. Every JKD concepts person thinks or says they understand it, but then you watch them perform there drills and its just more DEAD patterns. Paul Sharp posted a funny story online about how a JKD Instructor visited his Gym in Illinois and said he had been working "pummeling", and the clinch with a prominent JKD Concepts Instructor. Paul asked to see, and the guy started demonstrating various switches to go in and out of hubud, chi sau, and the swim. As Paul said, "Some people can f*%k up a wet dream!"

Long answer, the problem goes to the very heart of what these Instructors think JKD is. The JKD Concepts people still evaluate growth through accumulation, as opposed to performance. A buffet method where you pick and choose through arts. It's a faulty teaching model. When Aliveness is taken out, and performance is no longer the only goal, politics, and weasels take there place. My job as an SBG Coach is to extract that weasel. Sometimes it's a delicate operation.

(laughs)

As for the original JKD people, they still believe you must first learn the "style" of another fighter before developing your "own" style in fighting. In their case they believe in learning Bruce's way first. Again, this is just faulty logic. Imagine if I had a stable of fighters and I was going to prepare them for combat within a NHB or MMA arena. But, before we put them in the ring and had them box, clinch, wrestle, fight, I had them memorize and drill all of Frank Shamrocks moves. Now, I respect Frank Shamrock as a fighter allot.....but he has a unique style all his own developed through sparring and fighting. Imagine if I said you had to learn to fight like Randy Couture first before you fight. Fight with the underhook, etc. Randy is a friend, but Randy has also been doing wrestling most of his life, and he is a 'world class' Greco wrestler. There is no way I could 'imitate' his style, and it would be foolish of me to try. I could go on and on with examples, but the point is that if you really want to screw up the growth curve of a fighter make him imitate someone else first, before you begin letting him develop his 'way' in the clinch, on his feet, and on the ground. That will mess him up for life! (laughs) If you're a boxing coach, and you really want to mess up a boxers game have him try and imitate Ali, or Tyson, or Leonard. It's silly. To train a fighter you teach him the basics and you MUST then let him find his 'way' in the ring. He can only do that through sparring, NOT drill! You may pick up a move or idea from another fighter here and there, but you cannot imitate another fighter's game and expect to be that good. Remember Joe Fraziers son?. . . he was an excellent stick and move boxer, but his Dad tried to have him fight with 'his' style. A bobbing and weaving, hooking style. Marvis lost it all after that. It's just NOT good coaching!

So if I said Derrick, you need to imitate how a 130lb Chinese man who passed away in 1973 fought, do you think that would be a good idea?

D: No.

Exactly. It just does not make sense. You coach the basics of standing, clinch and ground, and let the athlete develop his own 'way' or style based on his physical, emotional, and mental capabilities. That's JKD. Frank Shamrock IS JKD. Randy IS JKD. A guy may say that he teaches JKD because a piece of paper says that, but if he has not gone through the trials to develop his 'own' fighting game at all ranges then he is not JKD and never will be no matter what anyone says or writes. And if he cannot help another athlete develop his own 'style' then he cant teach JKD. No matter how many drills, moves, notebooks, or certificates he has.

D: What about Jun Fan Gung Fu?

I don't claim to teach that. If someone walked in my Gym and said they wanted to learn to fight the way Bruce Lee did, I would explain to them that I don't teach that. I teach people to fight, I don't teach people to imitate other fighters. If they said they wanted to fight like Couture, or Rickson, or anyone else, I would say the same thing. So I don't claim to teach Couture Gung Fu, Shamrock Gung Fu, Thornton Gung Fu, or Jun Fan Gung Fu. I teach JKD, period.

I have had maybe two people out of the thousands who have walked in my Gym over the years, who were positive they wanted to learn "Bruce Lee's way". And that's cool, I send them elsewhere. Go see Steve Golden across the bridge. Go somewhere else, that's not what we do. Those were people that probably would not have survived in the Gym anyway. But, as I said, that's two out of thousands. Only twice in ten years of teaching. So I think most people simply want to learn how to fight, how to defend themselves, and have fun.

D: Why not just advertise as Mixed Martial Arts, or self defense then?

That's a good question. One reason is I started as a JKD Concepts Instructor, and this started as a JKD Concepts school, and we evolved to what we are today.

The other is I absolutely believe in my heart that what I teach is JKD. What JKD was meant to be. What Bruce Lee talked about is what we are. Even if everyone else in the world disagreed and wanted JKD to be "imitate Bruce Lee Do", or "cross train without performance Do", they would be wrong. The SBG is true JKD. I know this in my heart. I believe the best way to honor his memory is to keep cranking out fighters who have a high level of performance skill, coaching ability, and ethics. And that's what I am doing. I am very proud of all our Instructors and athletes. Their wins mean more to me then my own, and that's how we honor Bruce Lee.

D: So people should just forget about their certificates and simply train to fight then.

Of course. Only performance matters, not certificates. But if you want to teach Bruce Lee's method, then go ahead and accumulate a paper trail. If you want to teach Bruce Lee's ideal of martial arts perfection, JKD, then your certification is your students. If you want to know if someone can fight then try them and find out, be respectful, but understand if someone claims to teach grappling and wont roll with you, then there is a problem with their "certification". If someone wants to know if I can teach others to fight, look in my gym. My Gym and my athletes are my certification. I have a Gym full of champions. The people I coach all go on to become good fighters, athletes, and competitors. That's the one and only "certification" that counts within a performance orientated art. within JKD. What good would any piece of paper be if your athletes sucked! (laughs) it's all very silly.

D: What about those that say some people are 'fighters' and some just are not?

Again, that's utter nonsense. ANYONE can be a fighter. A good coach can show anyone of even moderate to low athletic ability and intelligence what it takes to become a good fighter. Now, not everyone may then want to make the sacrifices necessary to get to that level of performance. But, that doesn't mean they CAN'T be fighters. It means there not willing to put forth the effort necessary to be fighters. Anyone that says otherwise is either a bad coach, or purposely misleading people because they want to coddle them and make them feel good about being lazy. In which case its all about the jack $.

D: So how have the SBG's been doing in competition.

Everyone is doing great. I took down five of our people and entered them in the advanced division of the Machado Submission wrestling tournament in Vegas a few Months ago, and all five took first in their weight class. That group included Nathen who is a great NHB fighter, and Robert who is Gym VP. Our NHB record is growing, Brian Stromburg has had a few more matches since the last interview and is still undefeated, and other athletes from the Gym have been doing well in competition.

What is also cool is that our affiliated schools all fare well in NHB and competition as well. Rodney King's gym in South Africa went through a trial process for the first UFC South Africa event, where twelve of his athletes fought NHB and all twelve won in under a minute. Last I checked Rodney's Gym was 21 and 2 in NHB. That's pretty damn good. Luis G's school is FLA competes and does great regularly. What is also neat about Luis is that he has kids that compete and their winning! I am very happy to see kids learning this curriculum. It's healthy and fun. Its hard to keep track, practically every weekend there is an SBG somewhere doing some kind of competition. Rory, Forest, Dan and Adam Singer and the Georgia group also compete regularly and do well. I am proud of everyone. I know that when we go to BJJ tournaments or submission tournaments, or NHB events and the opponents see that the athlete is from SBG the general reaction is "shit this persons gonna be good". And that's all that matters. I'm doing my job.

D: What about you're own competitions what are your plans?

I certainly plan on entering more grappling tournaments in the future. I enjoy the grappling competitions, and I think you have to enjoy the event or there is little point. As far as NHB, I know what a huge commitment it takes to compete at the top levels in that sport. Having trained with Randy Couture, and Dan Henderson for events, as well as our own guys here at the Gym, I know just how tough these athletes are. I don't think the average spectator, or "martial artist", has any idea of the level of conditioning and skill that these guys have. It's a whole different world from the one that saw Royce armlocking people in the guard. I have not ruled it out, but, the point is I realize what a huge commitment it would take for me to fight in the shape I would want to be in. I am not the kind of person who would just enter at anytime. I would have to be in top condition. Right now I have other priorities, I feel an obligation to those I am training, and I feel I need to get out the message of Aliveness to more people. Spreading that message is really what I feel my calling is. It's what I am very good at.

D: And is that message received well around the world?

Yes, all over the world. I don't think people always know what to expect at first, but by the end of the day everyone loves it and is having a great time.

Of course there is the extremely rare exception of the guy who resented being shown the elephant. He was happy with his fantasies of the tail and the trunk. But he can go on to any of the other thousands of JKD Concepts people in the world and fit right in, so no worries.

D: Who do you think is the toughest NHB fighter out there today.

I'd say without hesitation Randy Couture. Randy won't quit no matter what. He has a great chin, and I don't see anyone being able to submit him in an NHB match. I would not bet against him against anyone. He has amazing heart, and he is smart. NHB, Submission, and BJJ are all sports that require intelligence as well as skill and conditioning if you want to compete at the top levels.

D: I know your game is always evolving, what kind of things have your personally been working on?

In what area?

D: Well lets say stand up first, what have you been working on there?

Well, I have neglected my stand up for several years now. There is no other way to put it.

For one I have been focusing hard on my ground game, and for two there really wasn't anyone that posed a threat in that area before. Now I see the guys getting better on their feet so I need to go back and work that again. We have a few golden gloves level fighters within the organization, Rory Singer in Georgia. Kress here at the Portland Gym, Rodney King in Africa, etc. I think Rodney has the best hands pound for pound that I have ever seen on a JKD guy or NHB fighter. That's why I am bringing him out the SBG Camp in September. So the other guys can see what he does.

Also, in the past it's been the case of "why take the hits to the head". My ground game is good, and I just take it down and finish it. But now we work sometimes with athletes like Couture, and there is no way on gods green earth that I am ever gonna take Randy down. So if Randy decides its gonna be a stand up fight. . . . . well then shit, its gonna be a stand up fight! So I am working on getting my hands back. We have to be able to deal with that reality.

D: How are you doing that, and what specifically are you working on?

Well I am taking a kind of slow roll approach to it. I first saw my friend Daniel Duby do this about six years ago. The best way I could describe it is like the slow roll version of BJJ applied to the hands. But I am just putting it to work now.

In the past people would get scared boxing me and then throw a heavy punch, because they are scared, and then I would get pissed and either knock them out, or attempt to knock them out. Now I am backing off a bit and letting people work a little give and take. On my end I am working against against people who slip inside my reach, because if they don't I have nothing to worry about anyway. There is always new ways to prevent that, or to punish them when they do. That's what I try and work as a tall fighter. Other fighters may need to work the opposite, head movement, etc. I am also working allot on a new variation of the straight blast. A new approach. A new way to enter with it, etc. It's working well, and I think when the other guys at the Gym see what I am doing it's gonna change the game a little.

D: You mentioned seeing Daniel Duby do his boxing style, have you worked much Savate with Daniel.

A little. . . .Daniel is a good friend, he has stayed at my home, and I have visited his Island about six times. Because of that I think I got to see more of what Daniel actually does then most people have. If you don't really know Daniel or work with him in a class or seminar, he is likely to show some sort of wing chun or funky kung fu stuff. But, if Daniel trusts you he may show you a little of what he would, and does actually do in a fight. And it's none of that. It's hard western boxing, with broken rhythm, and a loose structure. It's actually very good stuff.

D: What about the clinch?

For the clinch I have been focusing more on neck tie stuff. Allot of that. Not just strikes, but also control, stopping the takedown, and lots of chokes and neck manipulations from there. Coincidentally, when I was in Georgia there was a very good Muay Thai guy there that works with Adam and Rory named Scott Hicks, and Scott showed some things I have been playing around with and really solidified some of what I had been thinking on that position. I also saw allot of how Rodney was approaching drilling that position, and I liked that as well. And I have paid close attention to how the wrestlers defend against it. Again, synchronicity, it all comes to me when I need to learn it.

D: And for your ground game?

The biggest change in that has probably been the slower tighter approach I am taking to my game. It's still an aggressive game but I am trying to tighten everything up. Also the little bit of time I have been able to spend with Rigan. Seeing what he was doing, and taking his advice onto the mat to work on.

For the submission wrestling tournaments you have to be prepared to work against wrestlers who will score and then defend themselves until the clock runs out. In an eight or ten minute match that can make it extremely hard to win if you don't play a smarter, faster, aggressive game. So in addition to working the usual sprawls and basics we always work, I have been focusing on ways to attack that type of base. Create attacks, get sweeps, etc. Also, allot of leg lock defense.

I'd say the biggest difference for my ground game is now my approach though. I don't want to get hurt, and for me in a match within the Gym I never want to win on strength. In competition I will use everything, but within the Gym I am the type of grappler that only counts a technical win. A rear naked choke, well timed armlock, etc. Footlocks are something I attack when I am to tired to bother passing the guard anymore.

D: Sounds like lots of new things.

Always. . .and it's not so much new material, as it is depth in material that has previously been used. Or a faster, smarter approach to presenting and articulating that material to another athlete. I plan on going over all this stuff at the next Camp. That's what the SBG Camps are for. Bring everyone up to date on the latest things we are all working on. That's how I see the Camps evolving.

D: I read in an interview you gave that you don't have specific requirements for an SBG Instructor, you just "know them when you meet them". What did you mean by that?

That's absolutely true. I know them within the first few minutes. There are common denominators, but really I think it all comes down to motivation. What motivates someone to do this? If its prestige, I am not the guy. That's someone who wants a certificate from a 'name' because that's his or her own sense of self worth. Is it a title..... again wrong group. If their only motivation is performance, then I am their kind, so we get along immediately. All these people listed on the family tree were SBG Instructors before I met them, all I do is acknowledge it. They all roll, and spar with their students. As such all their students have real respect for them. Not ass kisser respect, but respect for their ability. They all have open environments where they don't attempt to tell students where they can and cant train, or who they can train with. There is no "Sifu this Guro that" bullshit hierarchy. Because they train and work in with their students and in front of their students they don't need that nonsense. Their students respect them already. And probably most importantly, I like all their students. Every time I visit an SBG affiliated school it's just like being home. Whether I am in Florida, Georgia, Chicago, Africa, Alabama, Nevada,  wherever, they are all good people. Just like at my own Gym in Oregon. The type of people I would hang out with anyway. I am always among friends. So I walk into there Gym and I say "Aha!, another SBG" I don't make them SBG Instructors, they were Instructors long before I arrived. I just welcome them into the tribe.

D: That's interesting, so it's a certain type of person then.

Yes. . . .look, its all about motivation. All the people you see affiliated with the Gym are united by a common bond of wanting to. . . . . . . . .'evolve'. I guess that would be the best word. Often I see their book collection and they have the same reading material I have. They read the same stuff, ask the same questions, etc. It's always been that way for me so far, synchronicity.

D: So how many Instructors do you have under you at the Gym now?

Well I have no Instructors "under" me. . .I have students that I work out with, that will, if I am doing my job as a good coach, evolve into training partners. That's a very different thing. Ultimately all I do is point people is a particular direction, then I believe you have to give them space so they can develop their own way and style. I am not a Guro or Sifu. Just a Coach and friend.

D: Why do you have different levels of Instructors then?

Well first off they are not different "levels". I abolished the levels awhile ago. Some Gyms still use levels in classes, but in their case I believe that is a financial decision, and since they are responsible for paying their bills that is up to them. Organization wide I am the only one that acknowledges SBG Instructors into the family, and I don't have any levels. What I do maintain on the website is three different job descriptions. The first is an 'Instructor' , this is anyone I feel has a well rounded game. Could compete within the group of other SBG Instructors and present a valid threat. And who can to some degree or another articulate that to another athlete. Since the Gym is strictly performance based for someone to be an SBG Instructor they simply have to be competitive with the other existing SBG Instructors. Like being a black belt in BJJ. If you can give game to other BJJ blackbelts your own size, and sometimes win, using BJJ movement. . .well then you are a BJJ blackbelt whether anyone says that or not. You simply are. It's the same here. When I see that level of game I acknowledge it. It's as simple as that.

The next job title is Coach/Instructor. I maintain the distinction strictly as a way to acknowledge the SBG Instructors that I feel have taken on the extra responsibilities of running a Gym or training with higher level athletes. They have moved from the level of 'teacher' which you play with beginners, and moved on to the level of Coach, which is a subtler game you have to play with more advanced athletes.

Finally we have a Full Instructor/Coach. That is simply my way of telling someone that I feel I have taken them as far as possible and they need to begin taking the art to a higher level. I guess you could say that performance wise it's the SBG equivalent of a BJJ blackbelt.

D: How many SBG Full Instructors are there?

None yet, we will probably acknowledge one or two at the next Camp.

D: What exactly are the Camps and when are they?

The Camps are held twice a Year. I have had them now since I started the Gym. about seven Years now.  I think they are important because they are a time when all the people of the different SBG locations can come together and meet and train and socialize. For me I look forward to seeing all my friends together more then I do the actual training itself. But I also use it as a time when I can update all the Instructors on all the different things I have been working on and the direction the Gym curriculum has been going, as our curriculum is always in a state of evolution. These allow me to keep everyone up to date.

I recently changed the dates and we are going to keep them permanent so people can plan in advance. They will always be on the weekend closest to March 25th, and the weekend closest to September 22nd. This way people can plan ahead. The next Camp will be our Fall Camp September 22nd, and 23rd here in Portland.

D: Since you are an avid BJJ practitioner do you give out BJJ belts?

No, I let some of my BJJ coaches do that. Since BJJ is all they do they are much better at evaluating someone's ability within that game. But I do like the BJJ belt system as long as it's used for competition. Its simple, four belts, and as long as it's applied to athletes it stays performance based. To be a purple belt you must be able to beat purple belts, etc. That keeps it true and worthy. Any other measure or gauge would be a false one in my estimation. I am proud of all of our blue belts, and purple belts here. I would put them against any purple belts in the world.

D: So you know an Instructor when you meet them, and they have to be able to compete with the SBG Instructors. That almost sounds a little restrictive. Almost unattainable to allot of people.

Not at all. One thing I have learned throughout the last few Years of teaching is never to write anyone off. I am well into my fifth ICC class this Year, and over the course of the last four ICC's we have always tried to pick out who would stick with it and who would move on. We are all always surprised by someone. You can never write anyone of. It all depends on who wants to put forth the effort. We show them where they are as fighters, and what they have to do to get better. Some people then decide they don't want to put forth that effort now, and others work hard to do it. You never know who will do what. So although I know an SBG Instructor when I meet one, that doesn't mean that someone else I meet may not become an SBG Instructor in the future. You can never tell. I could see that same person a Year later and they might be a completely different animal.

D: Some people have asked how you set about creating the Gym. What you did to get started, and how they could do it, etc.

I started the Gym simply because I wanted a place to train. The place where I was working out had become kind of a typical political concepts school, and my philosophy and ideas where evolving in a completely opposite direction. So I felt I needed to be at a place where I could roll and spar and grow.

Honestly, if I had found that place I would have just signed up and trained. I would have preferred just to be another athlete and work out. If that had been the case I would have probably evolved into fighting. But, there was no place like that. Everyone was repeating the same dead pattern nonsense, so I had to open it and then create training partners. That was the sole reason behind the Gym. I think because I stayed true to that notion, and I didn't chase the dollar, even though everyone told me people wanted levels, and certificates, and drills, and nobody would want to actually do this. . . .because I did it anyway, under the assumption I would always be poor. . .the warrior god blessed me with a little success. It's ironic. I am the leader of the Gym because I never wanted to be the leader, I just wanted to train.

My students that just want to train and grow and don't want to be leaders always wind up being the leaders, and those that really want to be teachers never make good teachers. That's how it is in a performance-orientated environment. Our best Instructors like Tom Oberhue and Robert Follis are the ones that spend the most time on the mat themselves, and also spend time thinking about the whole process. I am sure they would both rather train then teach. That's why they are good teachers.

D: Are the other SBG Instructors the same way... training orientated?

Absolutely, in an Organization like this all the members are leaders. So you have to hold the reigns very loose. I give everyone allot of space. At a certain point I understand that they need to go off and develop their own games, and at that point I may only see them infrequently. But that is how it is supposed to be.  With a philosophy of freedom and thinking for yourself you can't then tell people they need to teach this, this, and this, in this order. They are all leaders so I back off and let them do their thing and the Gym grows. I don't want to hold anybody's hand anyway. I eventually pass on the lazy students. . .those that don't want to invest the time into training, and invest the intellectual energy required for self-education, I pass them onto other Gym Instructors. I cannot waste that much energy.

But, I can honestly say that I have never had a "falling out" with any of my Instructors. I see the same guys that I have been training with since I started the Gym at all the camps. I have known many of them for years now. In fact I have not lost one Instructor. Nobody has ever left the Gym or been kicked off the Instructors roster. I doubt anybody ever will. Some organizations have rotating family trees where you see a different crop of Instructors every few Years. That's a sign that the philosophy of the Organization is corrupt from the top down. Our family tree just keeps growing. At an intentionally slow pace, because  they are all quality people. Leaders, the type of people that will be training this way forever. I am proud of everyone we have listed and I would stand behind any of them. It's a group of people that is together because they share a common philosophy on training, and because they are friends. Not because they need me. I am not an essential part of the equation, and co dependent people just don't survive at the upper levels of the Gym.

D: Allot of people seem to ask about the difference between what you do, and training purely for self defense, or 'streetfighting'. I have heard your answer many times, but can you articulate again the differences.

That is probably the one question I am asked more then any other. Of course my answer is always the same.  As Luis says, "just add dirt". It is a simple process to add foul tactics into the structure of a trained combat athlete. I sleep real well at night knowing that anyone that has trained with me, and is an Instructor is more then capable of defending themselves. I have worked (street stuff) with all of them, and I know what they can all do. If anything I feel sorry for the poor bastard that makes the mistake of trying them out!

But there is a bigger issue for me when it comes to training people to be quote un quote "streetfighters".  There is a mentality that often accompanies these questions that I am very wary of. When I read these questions in e-mails, or online, and then I actually meet these "streetfighting" guys in person at my seminars they are almost always the runts of the litter. The weaklings, emotionally, physically, etc. Probably social outcasts to a degree. Not good childhood's, etc. I don't think you need to be ashamed of that, but I do think you need to acknowledge it and work past it. The problem is that with a "streetfighting" mindset and motivation they will probably never work through, and evolve past these issues. You look past the streetfighter bravado and look into their eyes and you see a scared little boy.

I'll tell you a story. I went to a very well known "mercenary" convention sometime ago at the request of one of the vendors. They had asked me to check out the convention in the hopes of getting me to teach a self defense class there at some point. As I walked around I was utterly amazed at how many geeks were assembled in one room. I don't mean to be rude. . .but you had all these guys dressed in camouflage fatigues talking about "tactics" and real world self defense, and guns and knives, and all this crap. And yet I am looking at all of them and I am saying to myself that if I actually had to go into combat these would be the last bastards on earth I would ever want to take with me! They were ALL scared little boys.

Now I submit to you that all this tactical streetfighting stuff these guys do does nothing but serve as a crutch, which stands in the way of further personal development and evolution. They stay scared little kids inside because they cling to this.

However, take one of these guys and put him in my Gym, or any Gym within the SBG tribe, and he will be forced to change. He is going to get tapped out, knocked out, slammed down, tapped out again, and then tapped out once more. He will be beaten by people much smaller then him, and he will be forced into a position where he realizes that there is absolutely no way he can prevent it, and it will all be done by "nice" people. Guys who don't walk around pretending like they are SF commandos, or 'billy bad asses'. He's going to get his ass kicked by family men and mature males! (laughs). His ego will have no place to hide. It won't be able to hide in the camouflage fatigues and nonsense of "streetfighting" anymore. He will either quit, or his ego will be pounded down, and then built back up through hard effort, and ACTUAL skill. Slowly he will reach a point where he is the one doing the tapping and striking. He will be more comfortable with himself, less afraid, more confident,  happier, gentler, and just evolve in general as a human being. That is the SBG way.

Now, I could make allot of money off these guys because for better or worse the Gym has a reputation for being 'real' because people know that everyone listed on that family tree can to a certain degree make it all work. They can all fight. There is not one person on that list that would be an easy day for anyone. And that's what most of these 'streetfighting' guys want. They want people to 'fear' them. Because if people fear them, they hope people will then leave them alone, and they wont be forced into confrontation.  So knowing that as I do, I could pander to that instinct in them and make allot of money in the process. The problem is that I know in my heart if I did that you would be able to come back in a year and see that same person. The same scared little kid. So I cannot do that. I have to stay true to myself and I won't pander to that weakness in them.

My instinct as a coach and teacher, when I see someone like that, is to steer that type of person towards athleticism, and self education... because I know that will help them evolve as people as well as fighters. And then, when I see them a Year later they will be completely different people. And that will make us both happy.

D: I have seen allot of Krishnamurti quotes and philosophy on your site and at your seminars, could you explain this interest.

Sure, Krishna J is not the only person I like to read on. I am also an avid fan of Jung, Campbell, Whitmore, Maslow, Chomsky, Frankl, and Wilber, just to name a few. I initially disliked Ken Wilber just because I have an instant negative gut reaction to anything termed "new age". But my friend Luis mentioned him several times on my last trip to Florida, and so I took a closer look. The more I read of his the more I like it. But K is what I always come back to because I believe what he spoke was pure truth. There is a solid human tendency to attempt to explain things we don't fully grasp, and K never fell prey to that. I have never detected any bullshit in anything he ever spoke. That's unique to him. As much as I admirer Jung, there are certainly things I disagree with him on. Sometimes I think he reached to far. Obviously we have discovered so much more about the brain since the time of Freud. But, with K everything he said seems to be timeless. It applies directly to what we do. It explains what we do, and how we do it here at the Gym.

D: How so?

Well, not to be coy but if I had to explain it to you it won't matter! It's like Aliveness, you either grasp it or you don't. If you grasp it then it's simple, very simple, but also very easy to stray from. I would suggest just spending more time in the Gym rolling and sparring, and then go back and read K's talks. Eventually you will go "oh YA, I see."

D: So when you said you know an SBG Instructor when you meet them does that also mean that an SBG Instructor would need to have read Krishnamurti.

No, not at all. In fact people often ask me for book recommendations, and I don't mind. But, I am amazed that people have not read some of the most common titles I recommend. I have a ton of books sitting next to my bed waiting to be read. every time I walk into a bookstore a new title jumps out at me that I need to read. I find exactly what I need, and I don't know why anyone else, sincere in the search, couldn't do the same.

But, to answer your question, no,  you don't need to have ever heard the word Krishnamurti.

However, I will tell you this. Every SBG Instructor I have met already had K in his library. Again, synchronicity.

D: In the last interview you were discussing the importance of conditioning. Is that still the case?

Absolutely, I would say that once you reach a certain level in your game conditioning often becomes the determining factor in the match. We talked allot about intelligence, and reading, but if you have a lamborgini mind and a pinto body you are gonna have trouble as a fighter!

D: So any new thoughts on that since the last interview?

Only that we have become more aware of the concept of over training. I myself am very aware of it. At one point I pushed myself hard for a particular competition and when the actual competition came I had a bad flu. Now the flu was going around, but I also believe I just over trained. Now I am more careful with my body. I get sick allot less. If you are walking around feeling like you have a permanent cold, it's probably just over training.

D: Well, I know you stated you are against strict "goal setting", but do you have any immediate things you are focusing on?

I said I am against that for myself personally. Someone else might need more restrictive structure. everyone is different. In the long term I will keep building the Gym, connecting the dots. Bringing people together that share our motivation. I plan on linking the Gyms up much better online this Year. Creating more business opportunities for all the SBG Instructors.

As far as my immediate plans. . .this year I want to really tighten up my ground game. I have been working on some things that Rigan Machado helped me with and I want to get that perfected. I plan on working my stand up allot more with my people here at the Gym, and getting my hands back. Spend more time confusing and frustrating my kids. Do more conditioning... and also just to become better friends with the women in my life.

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